Stephan Fox Interview (January 2001)

This is an exclusive interview with Stephan Fox the International Co-ordinator for the World Muaythai Council. Stephan is known for his work for the WMC and his time spent before that in Australia. He is a familiar face to any thaiboxing organisation in the world.

Read the follow up to the interview here: can read here

Did anyone teach you in Australia?
When I moved to Australia I already was pretty much advanced in muaythai and was fighting professionally then. I had over 100 ring fights so at that time I was actually teaching and fighting at the same time.

What titles did you hold?
I held many titles with different sanctioning bodies - at that time there was no world muaythai council, muaythai has been very very unorganised. I won a world title with a kickboxing body, I won the Kings cup championship once, I won the intercontinental , commonwealth title, south pacific title. I held pretty much all there was at that time but as I said the sanctioning bodies have been different and it was very easy to get a title.

Why did you move to Australia?
I moved to Australia because of the climate, Europe as you know is very cold. I also got much better training condition especially Queensland where it is hot all the year round so it is perfect for my training, it's also much closer to Thailand and the links between Australia and Thailand are much better than Germany where muaythai is still really in its infancy. The standard in MUAYTHAI as also much higher and you look today there are worlds between Australian MUAYTHAI and Germany MUAYTHAI.

Do you still have a house in Australia?
Yes, yes I have a gym in Australia and I am still very close to the Australian federation . There is a proper federation in Australia with president, vice-president, sanctioning committee and Australian muaythai is very strong . I am very proud to say that I have been one of the people there pushing Australian muaythai and have been pushing for the establishment of the Oceania Federation.

Who trained you when you were going to Thailand for the 3-5 months?
I trained in many different gyms. I did not stay at exactly the same gym because I believe that every gym trains differently - some gyms are famous for the elbow, some gyms are famous for the knees, some for the boxing technique. So I actually trained in most of the gyms just to get the best out of them. Can you name some of the big ones in Thailand? There is Maimongkong, Jitty Gym, Joggy Gym, Eminent air . Sythotong and all the Gyms where foreigners train Lana , Sipolek-so many I cannot name them all. I always have preferred for myself the Gyms in South Thailand a lot because I think that the standard in South Thailand is very strong and that's why my links are still very close in south Thailand in Surat Thani, , Koh Samui, there are some very good camps

So how did you become international co-ordinator for the World Muaythai Council?
I have been involved in the WMC since day one. Since the declaration meeting in 1995 I had close links with . General Vorayudh Mesommonta the General Secretary of the World Muaythai Council already and I had devoted my time form day one most in the amateur and professional sections. Now I am proud to say that the WMC has more than 120 countries around the world and is clearly under the directive of the government of Thailand and for muaythai I think there is only one sanctioning body as there should be and that is the world muaythai council.

So what was there before the World Muaythai Council?
There were many sanctioning bodies, you know, some still exist like WKA , ISKA WPKL ,WMTA etc but since we have start with the WMC most of these sanctioning bodies have realised that they should stick with their kickboxing of whatever and when it comes to muaythai the main body should be the WMC for the professional and IFMA for the amateur.

So how did they make the decision just to form the WMC, who was behind it?
It was actually the Thai army and people from the Thai stadiums, the sport authority of Thailand at that time General Vorayudh Mesommonta, who is probably the leading force in muaythai the whole energy behind it, and certainlyGeneral Chetta Thanajaro who was the Commander-in-Chief Royal Thai Army and former president of the Olympic committee in Thailand and former President of the Amateur Boxing association of Thailand- they were the leading people behind it and it was supported by all of the major stadiums. If we look at the declaration meeting Lumpinee, rajadamnern, Omnoi and Channel 7 were all there on the executive committee and the Thais decided that the time has come where muaythai is just not a sport for Thailand anymore the time has come that muaythai is an international sport and they should get all the leading international people in the sport and make a truly world body out of muaythai

So how does the WMC work at the moment - how is it organised?
The WMC is organised in the headquarters in Thailand it is one office the WMc and IFMA together in the international Olympic committee of Thailand compound. The president is General Chetta Thanajaro and the General Secretary is General Vorayudh Mesommonta but many executive members are from around the world so it is a truly international body.

What do you think of all the other association that you mentioned such as ISKA, WPKL - do they ever co-sanction with the WMC?
We don't really like to do that because muaythai is muaythai you cannot really sanction soccer and rugby league in one game. Muaythai has 8 weapons, elbows/knees, legs and fists and kickboxing doesn't have that - The rules are different , time limit is different- kickboxing is kickboxing, muaythai is muaythai. I like many sports boxing and kickboxing I have done myself but when it comes to muaythai it should be ruled under one body the same as soccer is under FIFA.

Some people have said that the WMC is too Thailand orientated whereas FIFA is a true international sporting body - what would you say to that?
That's not true. The WMC and IFMA are truly international bodies. The president is proper elected and at the moment Thailand is pushing the hardest but that is meaning not that next President could be from any country As soon as we have people influential from other countries which are willing to take on this task then the president will be someone from another country. MUAYTHAI is an international sport it does not belong to the Thais anymore .The whole sanctioning body is very international we follow the sports laws for each individual country we do not dictate any sports laws. For the Thai fighters some people may think we are very strict but they have to understand the system. If Thai fighters go to England for example to compete we have a responsibility to make sure they represent the country of Thailand in a decent manner, they don't go out drinking , smoking etc to make sure they show muaythai well. We want to make sure the proper athletes go there and we have to make sure they a are looked after where they go and therefore we select our promoters very carefully.

A lot of people would argue though if they want to go abroad and fight it's up to them? If I want to go and work abroad I can.
Yes this is true but imagine the English soccer team plays in Italy and is behaving in a bad manner ..what would happen than.The team is chosen by a body and they have to follow the guidelines On top of that you still need a visa to go there - so that is the question. The English embassy and WMc work together to make sure that those going to get the job (fighting) have the "proper qualifications" and represent where they come from in a proper manner and have the skills. So many people fighting abroad that are called world champions are just C-class fighters they don't perform the ram muay which is a very important traditional part of muaythai which we all have to keep alive. And all the weigh divisions must be matched correctly, if something went wrong then that country might ban the sport and making the sport illegal. This is a very important issue to us , this fighters are not only ambassador for the sport but also for Thailand. But the WMC is an international body, every year, like in December 2001 we have the world meeting where every main representative from every country comes and the new rules and regulations are set and will be discussed. New committee members elected and the Thais do not want to hold onto their sport. To point more out, IFMA, (not the IAMTF which is based in Manchester, England) is a very international body. If we look at the executive list of the IAMTF it is mainly Thais and if we look at IFMA there is only 5 Thais on the executive the other 50 are from around the World. This is very important if we want to push muaythai forward into the next level it has to be done under a world body and it is not held onto by the Thais, no any more.

Just from running muaythai online I've had various associations ask me to be their representative in England -how do you select your representatives in each country?
The member selection is very strict . In 1995 anyone could join at the declaration meeting but after this it was a very slow process in selecting member bodies. First of all a country which is recognised by the Olympic committee is automatically a member. Other countries which are working hard, doing the right thing, following the regulations also have a representative body. At the moment from our 120 member countries we only really have 40 countries which have permanent representatives. Executive member and representatives have to be voted in democratic way it can not be that one single person makes decision who is allowed in and who not .That maybe works in other business orientated bodies but not with us. Other countries are still in the election process and we let them work out their internal political problems first. WE do not get involved in their internal political problems and after this is all sorted we say it is a body it cannot be a person. It has to be a federation not just mister x from England. I know in England a lot of people are not happy but there would be the same problems with another body in England. So people have to learn that the UKMF in England follow the exact guidelines of the WMC meaning the representatives do the courses, they have to go to all the meetings, they have to select the amateur team to send to the European or World Championships and so far the UKMF has followed all the proper steps for us.They have been there since day one and have done always the proper steps by us meaning following the international rules and regulations. Some people may be upset with them because they want to bring in Thais but that is not a UKMF decision it is a WMC decision.

Should the UKMF not then approach all clubs to ask if they have anyone viable for selection for the championships rather than just their member clubs?
They have election fights in Scotland and on their web site they say anyone who wants to the championships can apply here

But their web site hasn't been active for 2 years now?
We all can criticise people if we have another body it would be the same. It is much harder to build something than to destroy it and in any sport that's the same. I know for a fact that England and Scotland are holding selection bouts for the upcoming World Championships in July .The UKMF is not necessarily our representative body forever but all the other organisations, whatever their names are by working against them are working against themselves. Now if we take Australia for example, of which I can speak because I am involved in the sport a lot. In Australia we had the same political problems 5 years ago. We had many different bodies and many different gyms. Everyone tried to stab the other one in the back but then we had a meeting and we said people we want to move Australia into the top 10 into the world, we have the fighters we have the potential but we can only do it if we all work together.We have hold a big meeting and since that day all leading MUAYTHAI Gyms in Australia has joined forces and this is why Australia have become so strong. Now in England they have to do this soon because countries like Holland, France, Russia, Ukraine, Finland whether are much above them. Now the only way England can do this if the best fighters from England from all the different gyms can forget their political problems and join together and send their best fighters to international competition. The only way someone can improve is if they get a good match and that is the problem that England has at the moment. The top lot in other organisations do very little. In Australia we have done this for many years and this works in Australia the rules are simple if you have your own gym you can be a promoter. If you do not have your own gym you cannot be a promoter. Everyone has to work with the body in Australia the Oceania Muaythai Federation which is WMc sanctioned. there is no kickboxing etc. within this body. All the other bodies, the WKA, ISKA etc, work with this body because we have the best fighters. so if they want out fighters they have to work with us and there are no political problems. Now England is very far away from that. In England I think there is the English mentality and maybe there have been too many Thais over there for too many years doing their thing but if England doesn't turn this thing around it will be left behind.

What about muaythai going into the Olympics, a lot of people are talking about that as well?
Yes there is a lot of talk, it is a very long procedure. Some bodies like the IAMTF they will tell you all these stories. First I'd like to if possible in the interview outline that the IAMTF is not recognised by the sports authority of Thailand or the Olympic Committee of Thailand Under the Sports Law of Thailand there can only be one association per sport and this association is the AMAT- Amateur Muaythai Association of Thailand of which General Vorayudh Mesommonta is also the president . Now IFMA is the international arm of this association so the IFMA is does not need to be recognised as it is the international arm. Now the IAMTF is not recognised as there can be only one. If they tell people around the world that they are recognised then THIS IS SIMPLY NOT TRUE. Secondly the Olympic Committee of Thailand does not recognise the IAMTF they may support the IAMTF but they support any body that follows the rules of muaythai. In the Asian Games the IAMTF had nothing to do with that at all, they were not invited to meetings it was all done by AMAT and IFMA.
Now the Asian Olympic Committee only accepts IFMA so therefore out of the 5 Olympic rings one is already under IFMA control so the IAMTF can never ever take muaythai into the Olympics. The only way they could do it is if they joined forces with IFMA and that has been offered many times to the IAMTF but they don't want to do it for whatever reason. But by doing this they are slowing the whole process down and it can only be done under the direction of the Olympic Committee Of Thailand, now as the Olympic committee doesn't recognise the IAMTF - how can the IAMTF take muaythai into the Olympics? I do not want to talk against the IAMTF we all have wasted a lot of time on this minor problem if anyone needs the truth just contact the sports authority or the Olympic Committee of Thailand and ask them , that would be the most simple way 2) Everyone talks about the Olympics, but my personal opinion is that its a long long way away. Everyone knows the procedure like they did this big tournament - big with a question mark - with around 10 different countries in Greece last year and the tournament was to push muaythai into the 2004 Olympics. But this is rubbish because everyone knows that two years before the Olympic games all the sports are already selected and there will be no new sport in 2004. It is just a propaganda move and again misinforming them about 2004. Now 2008 we may have a chance - Beijing and Thailand are very close together. We have already moved into Beijing to organise big muaythai tournaments in order to promote muaythai. WE are the first to stage this muaythai vs kung fu friendship matches in Beijing ,its about a cultural exchange and to make MUAYTHAI known in China . This has been organised between government officials in China and the WMC Now we work on this slowly - but will it be in the Olympics - big question mark. First of all we need a lot of votes to get the sport included. There's a lot of other sports that want to be included ballroom dancing and many many others.
So it is a very hard task. We will only get to the Olympics if a) all political problems can be put aside b) if all countries work properly towards Olympic recognition in their own country. We had a meeting on December 3rd as a 4 day topic how to do this to do it within each country, representatives from 60 countries attended in Bangkok. It is a very long way and the people doing it are doing a very hard job. We got in the Asian games and this is a very big milestone for muaythai because underneath the Olympics it is the biggest event - this gives us something to build on but we need everyone's help it doesn't matter how small the club or how big the club. everyone has to work to so this is our only hope. So muaythai in the Olympics at the earliest in 2008 will be a demonstration sport. But if we get that in 2008 that means whoever is the host in 2012 still has to accept it again. So it is a very long way so a lot of people are lying if they think we can be in the Olympics soon. The only way would be a unification of MUAYTHAI under the IFMA and we offered this many times maybe even make General Tienchai the President of the IAMTF the honorary President of the IFMA and we all move on instead of fighting each other working together combining our strength and make our dream become reality that is the only want and I really hope that this all soon become reality.

Change of topic now - what made you open a camp in Samui and start doing tours?
I have done tours for some years to Samui mostly with the Australians. I like to combine culture, training and fun together. For those that are serious they can train hard. For those that want a little muaythai with a holiday they can do that. Samui is the perfect place. Bangkok is very difficult because the pollution and the traffic can be very annoying so we chose Samui. The camp is under the umbrella of the WMC. At the camp you have everything combined into one, you can stay there you don't need transport. You can walk down to the beach you can train, you can use the gym you've got everything. So it changed from a little idea into a big project and it is getting bigger and more popular.

When did you start the camp and why?
This camp is four years old. I didn't really do it for business as there is not much money to be made there and the overheads are very very high. II just like to see other people come there and train and I still like to train myself a little bit with them and I wanted to have my own camp in Thailand as I work there most of the time and Samui was the perfect place. I am not often there as I am very busy with other projects but it is great to see so many nationalities coming together with no politics and just enjoying MUAYTHAI

Everyone know muaythai at the moment for the ring sport but you teach some of the empty-handed side involving the groundwork - can you tell us about that?
People forget that muaythai is only a ring sport since about fifty years since gloves were introduced. It was originally an empty hand martial art developed for the battle field so a lot of people especially in the Western worlds forget that. They go in the gym for fitness, to kick pads , workout etc. From 100 I a gym only 5-6 step into the ring and maybe one develops in to a champion. But the real muaythai is the old traditional muaythai which is the perfect self defence for anyone male or female. So Muay Boran , is still alive it is getting taught in many gyms around Thailand. The army certainly does it. I pass on whatever I learn to my students.

Can you tell us a bit about some of the different names we've heard for different styles such as Led rit, Muay chaiya?
Most of these camps/styles - you can find these styles anywhere. You can find some in Bangkok others in north Thailand. But at the end of the day a kick is a kick and elbow an elbow. You can call it different name but for me its the same. it's the same with muay Boran it's a different method of knocking someone out but a right hand to the head normally does the job

You mentioned K1 fighters earlier coming to your camp - what'd you think of K1?
K1 is very big business and Ishii has done a very very good job therein promoting these events. But the K1 is certainly not muaythai the rules are different. The rounds are different - no elbows - totally different grappling rules. It is a multi-million dollar business, people say it will grow. But the quality of the K1, in my opinion, is decreasing the good old names are disappearing and new names are appearing but I do not think they are the same quality. I do not think they have the same media popularity in Japan that say Andy Hug or Sam Greco or Aerts. The future of the K1 - it will go on for a couple of more years, but K1 is only 10 years old , muaythai is 1000 years old and we will see what happens.

You promote as well don't you?
I do promote certainly with the WMC but we are not allowed to make a profit and most of the shows are charity shows for orphan kids etc. I do two promotions a year myself in Australia, just small promotions. But around the world I would probably be involved in more than 100 shows organising the show/fighters etc. Prob 100-150 promotions per year.

Is there anything you look forward to in particular each year - what's the highlight of the year for you?
I am very happy to see the sport grow and to see the quality of the sport moving forward. A lot of people say muaythai is decreasing but I think it is very much increasing in quality. It is increasing because East meets West - we have the traditional Thai technique but we have the rest of the world with different training methods, proper nutritional work, beautiful gyms. So the fighters are getting stronger and stronger. If you look at fighters from especially Russian countries - Kazastahn, Uzebkeistan, UKraine, Russia, Belarussia, Czek Republik are very strong. These people there have proper knee and elbow techniques and the Thais now really have to worry about their martial art because a lot of countries will be taking over slowly. It's the same as soccer - 100 years ago England was the motherland of soccer but they just made the World Cup this year. So this is the problem Thailand will face in the future. What I really like is the young kids coming up. An example is Kenny from England (pictured left). Colin Heron did a wonderful job there. I saw him two years a go and I see him now two years later - how much he has increased his knowledge and what a strong fighter he is. And if England has more kids like him when muaythai gets into the Olympics then they have better prospects. Is there any one incident in the sport that stands out above all others for you? Not really - my hardest was my first fight when your nerves kick in. since then a fight is just a fight AND AS LONG YOU ENJOIY YOURSELF IN THERE STAY WITH IT. For me it didn't matter if I won a championship belt or just had another fight, it's just another day the job has to b done. for me right now I would just like to see the sport go a long way and hopefully all the political problems will be sorted out around the world so that muaythai will get very strong and it will be very popular in many countries.

Who are your 5 favourite Thai fighters?
I get asked this question many many times you know. Each Thai fighter has different techniques and different skills. One is a good boxer, one kicker one elbow fighter it's the same as asking who the best soccer player is. Do you mean defensively, shooting, goalkeeper etc.. I enjoy myself at a good night at Lumpinee as much as at a little countryside fight in Surat Thani or Samui. I like the boys to go in the ring, I love the sportsmanship of muaythai especially in Thailand where the boys are friends and fight each other many many times. So I don't really care so much bout the big names the new names coming up the ranks are more important to me.

What about farangs then, do you have any favourites there?
There are many farangs which have made a name for themselves in Thailand and around the world. but for me much more important - everyone can be a champion - but can he be a champion of life. Can he pass his knowledge on? Is he a good example to the kids? Does he stay drug free? but that has to be seen there are many many good people around the world that I met 15 years ago in Thailand beginning muaythai and are now national representatives, presidents etc. These people I respect a lot these are the real heroes for me because champions come and go but trainers stay forever.

Isn't there a particular fighter you like to watch, there must be someone ?
Some people like watching Samart for his boxing skills, Diesel Noi a very strong fighter. Coban could knock someone out with a punch. But for me a fight is a fight. I go to a stadium and I sometimes don't know who the fighters are. I say "What's his name? he's brilliant never heard about him". In these days the fighters come and go very fast so no really no.

Do you know where Diesel Noi is now?
Not really. I heard he was in the States but I think he's back in Thailand now.

Is there anything exciting about to happen in the world of muaythai that you can tell us about?
There are many exciting things happening. Especially our muaythai against drugs campaign that we did. This was an initiative started by the WMC the chairmen is the private counselor of the King of Thailand. We hold events around the world firstly to promoter muaythai 2) to create awareness for kids to stay drug free and thirdly to boost the image of Thailand as many people think Thailand is the drug country of the world. This campaign is going a long way. We have some very big people involved in muaythai around the world. Like the Deputy Prime minister of Kazakhstan is the president of muaythai in Kazakhstan. The police general of the Philippines is the president of muaythai in the Philippines. Around the world some big people are getting involved. Now we do this muaythai against drug campaign which is sponsored by the government of Thailand and this again boosts the image of muaythai and hopefully we will get more big international people involved.

Who would you say are the top 5 countries at muaythai?
It is very hard to say as there are many strong nations. In the Oceania region Australia and New Zealand very strong. In Asian region, certainly Thailand and Japan. Korea are coming up strong. then you have the Asian-European countries like Kazakhstan which are very strong. We just had the Asian championships in Kazakhstan which has been unbelievable. Their fighters are so strong it is frightening. In Europe you certainly have France, Holland. Finland and Russia are also strong. England coming up - so many. South Africa and Morocco are getting stronger. Canada have some very talented boys. If we look at the world titles, the amateur world titles which we staged last year in Thailand which was very interesting to see that France actually won with Thailand coming second. Then it was close after that between Australia Ukraine, Belarussia.

Is there anything you would like to say in closing??
Normally I would say that muaythai is gaining a lot of recognition around the world. There is a lot of work ahead of us from the small gym to the big president. People have to realise that only teamwork can bring us to where we should be. In Thailand we have had many good events. We had the first Muaythai aerobic competition where we now realised that muaythai is not just a ringsport where a lot of girls, people etc just want to hit the pads, they are looking for something new. Muaythai is the best cardio workout anyone can get - anyone form Australia knows that 5 rounds on the pads can really mess your day up and we now have muaythai aerobics which has been adopted in many countries another initiative by the WMC. The female muaythai world now that is something we really look forward to. In the last three years we have done intensive work to push female muaythai around the world and we now finally have done a top 10 around the world. We have some strong English girls in there Mary Hart, Lisa Howarth. They are talented and they will be definite contenders for the upcoming female world titles in 2002. We hope to stage next year one female title fight in England. All in all I personally like to come to England, I go to England twice a year, to competitions, sometimes seminars etc. The standard in England is very good and the people are very friendly and dedicated. I hope that England now in the near future can forget all the little politics about their own little sanctioning bodies and can join together in order to make muaythai strong. This has always been our slogan , one World one MUAYTHAI